2024 GLMC Grand Tour Q&A

[Lee_0123]

Hello folks,
GLMC will be offering a Grand Tour again this year. I will be the Rally Master.
The rules are being finalized and will be completed soon. Once this is done the theme will be released and registration will open shortly thereafter on the Rally Master website. At the same time the offical rules will be posted on the GLMC.

The rally is to begin on Januray 1st and the rally flags will be released shortly before the first or on the first.

Lee B.

[DownUnder]

(edit)
I now have 2 questions.

Question 1. According to Wikipedia, there is only 1 borough in the whole of Australia as the term is obsolete. Nowadays, the term is sometimes used to refer to a a Local Government Area.
Will a LGA that meets the other naming rules be acceptable ?? For example, the Northern Beaches Council or the Mid Western Regional Council ??

Question 2. Is the word " central " an acceptable variant of centre/center ??

[theemightyorbit]

So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

And, the claims have to be actual signs, not individual letters attached to the facade or lettering on the windows of the building spelling out the name of the claimed town.

Attached letters example...



Right?

[JohnF]

[quote='theemightyorbit' pid='9472' dateline='1703886885']
So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

Where did you see in the newly posted rules that Green DOT signs do not count?

In the opening paragraph of the section, "Locations and Requirements" the last word is, "etc." My interpretation of that is that the Green DOT town limit signs are in play. As well as Churches, Cemeteries, Businesses signs, etc (pun intended).

In the many Grand Tours I have done requiring a sign, letters on a building were considered a sign. It will be interesting (and very important) what Lee's ruling on that question is.

J

[theemightyorbit]

(12-29-2023 05:45 PM)JohnF Wrote:  

(12-29-2023 04:54 PM)theemightyorbit Wrote:  So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

Where did you see in the newly posted rules that Green DOT signs do not count?

In the opening paragraph of the section, "Locations and Requirements" the last word is, "etc." My interpretation of that is that the Green DOT town limit signs are in play. As well as Churches, Cemeteries, Businesses signs, etc (pun intended).

In the many Grand Tours I have done requiring a sign, letters on a building were considered a sign. It will be interesting (and very important) what Lee's ruling on that question is.

J

There was some discussion earlier that on other GTs the DOT signs didn't count. Just want to make sure.

I, too, was curious about cemeteries and churches. Thanks for making the ponder.

(c;

[Lee_0123]

(12-29-2023 03:13 PM)DownUnder Wrote:  (edit)
I now have 2 questions.

Question 1. According to Wikipedia, there is only 1 borough in the whole of Australia as the term is obsolete. Nowadays, the term is sometimes used to refer to a a Local Government Area.
Will a LGA that meets the other naming rules be acceptable ?? For example, the Northern Beaches Council or the Mid Western Regional Council ??

Question 2. Is the word " central " an acceptable variant of centre/center ??

Q1 - If "Borough" is not in use in Aus. then use whatever is in common use in your country.

Q2 - Central is not an acceptable variant.

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(12-29-2023 04:54 PM)theemightyorbit Wrote:  So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

And, the claims have to be actual signs, not individual letters attached to the facade or lettering on the windows of the building spelling out the name of the claimed town.

Attached letters example...



Right?

Answer - This is not an acceptable location because Saint Paul, MN does not met the compass name criteria and furthermore the use of "North" is used to identify a building name/location in Saint Paul

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(12-29-2023 05:45 PM)JohnF Wrote:  [quote='theemightyorbit' pid='9472' dateline='1703886885']
So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

Where did you see in the newly posted rules that Green DOT signs do not count?

In the opening paragraph of the section, "Locations and Requirements" the last word is, "etc." My interpretation of that is that the Green DOT town limit signs are in play. As well as Churches, Cemeteries, Businesses signs, etc (pun intended).

In the many Grand Tours I have done requiring a sign, letters on a building were considered a sign. It will be interesting (and very important) what Lee's ruling on that question is.

J

Answer

DOT in my experience stands for Department of Transportation, a state run department. They are normally responsible for posting highway signs. I can't recall them posting town signs other than on direction signs. I.E. East Greenville 6 miles, or East Greenville Next Exit. These types of signs are not acceptable.

I think you will find a great number of signs will be on buildings. Just be sure it is for the town name and not the building location as in Orbit's post office example.

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1 - How would we count a situation with 2 directions in one town name? Northeast, MD comes to mind for me.
2 - A clarification I would like to ask for, pending the arrival of the 2024 Rules, is that do the town names need to just start with the letters N-E-S-W or do the words North-East-South-West need to be included. ie. Newtown vs Northboard ??
3 - Another issue is towns with the same name in multiple states. I know of 5 West Liberty's in five different states.

Answer - These are addressed in the rules.

[theemightyorbit]

(12-30-2023 04:41 AM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  

(12-29-2023 04:54 PM)theemightyorbit Wrote:  So, to be perfectly clear, any sign with the claimed town name on it, except for the green DOT signs found at the outskirts of town.

And, the claims have to be actual signs, not individual letters attached to the facade or lettering on the windows of the building spelling out the name of the claimed town.

Attached letters example...



Right?

Answer - This is not an acceptable location because Saint Paul, MN does not met the compass name criteria and furthermore the use of "North" is used to identify a building name/location in Saint Paul

Yeah, that pic is a crappy example of the point I was trying to make.

Here's a better one, not a sign, but letters attached to the building...



Would stuff like that work?

Thanks, Lee!

[DownUnder]

(12-30-2023 04:41 AM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  << snip >> - This is not an acceptable location because Saint Paul, MN does not met the compass name criteria and furthermore the use of "North" is used to identify a building name/location in Saint Paul

If I type "North St Paul" into Google Maps, I get this result.



Google Maps sees Nth St Paul as a separate city, Wikipedia sees Nth-SP as a city, the US Census sees it as a city, and it has zip-code of 55109, distinct from St Paul's zip-codes of 55101~55106.

If Nth-SP is not acceptable for the Grand Tour, how do we determine what is and what is not acceptable ??

[LSGiant]

I hate to be a little snide. But the idea of a Grand Tour is to ride somewhere. It is not a guarantee that you get a tag.
Lots of places with North St. Paul signs

[DownUnder]

My question still stands . . . If Nth-SP is not acceptable for the Grand Tour, how do I / We determine what is and what is not acceptable ??

[LSGiant]

Lee has final say but I believe North St. Paul is an acceptable location. But that photo of the Post Office is not.

[Lee_0123]

(12-30-2023 04:01 PM)DownUnder Wrote:  My question still stands . . . If Nth-SP is not acceptable for the Grand Tour, how do I determine what is and what is not acceptable ??

I replied to Orbit's question if that specific picture of the North branch of the US post office in St Paul was acceptable. The answer is no it is not acceptable for the reasons I gave.

I did not address whether or not North St Paul was acceptable. Based on the information you supplied North St Paul would be acceptable.

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(12-30-2023 09:56 AM)theemightyorbit Wrote:  

(12-30-2023 04:41 AM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  

Yeah, that pic is a crappy example of the point I was trying to make.

Here's a better one, not a sign, but letters attached to the building...



Would stuff like that work?

Thanks, Lee!

The attached to a building form a sign. Works for me

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(12-30-2023 09:56 AM)theemightyorbit Wrote:  

(12-30-2023 04:41 AM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  

Yeah, that pic is a crappy example of the point I was trying to make.

Here's a better one, not a sign, but letters attached to the building...



Would stuff like that work?

Thanks, Lee!

The letters attached to a building form a sign. Works for me

[Lapchik]

Think less, ride more.

[theemightyorbit]

(12-30-2023 10:32 PM)Lapchik Wrote:  Think less, ride more.

True.

[Lee_0123]

The full name of the town needs to be spelled out including the direction as defined in the rules. I.E. East Greenville counts. E. Greenville does not count.

The use of the green DOT signs are not allowed.

City/Town/Village limits signs that the local government put up will count. These signs must be easily readable and of commercial quality. All the communities identified for the GT are defined as a municipality meaning there is a formal means of government. Not every conglomeration of buildings with a sign out front is automatically a governed community. Do your best to pre-validate the location. Find the location on Google Maps and look for links to businesses and look at the address. Is it the same as the "town" name. Is there a post office, fire station, police station, etc. does their town name match? Yes I'm aware that some business addresses are not the same as the town they are physically located in. Franchise restaurants and gas stations are a good example.

[Lapchik]

No shirts this year? Ridemaster did not ask for a size, only purchasable item was the entry fee.

[Lee_0123]

We are intending on providing T Shirts to the finishers. It's mentioned in "the basics" section of the rules. Can a field for T Shirt size be added to Ride Master?

The registration form can now be accessed from the Ride Master web site.
The registration form can also be access through the GLMC GT website, "2024 Sign Up Link". see http://www.glmc.org/grand_tour.php

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Two up riders - each rider needs to register individually.

[LSGiant]

Working on it.

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T-shirt field now added

[theemightyorbit]

(12-31-2023 08:25 PM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  ...

City/Town/Village limits signs that the local government put up will count. These signs must be easily readable and of commercial quality. All the communities identified for the GT are defined as a municipality meaning there is a formal means of government. Not every conglomeration of buildings with a sign out front is automatically a governed community.

...

Thanks for clearing this up.

[DownUnder]

(12-31-2023 08:25 PM)Lee_0123 Wrote:  << snip >> All the communities identified for the GT are defined as a municipality meaning there is a formal means of government.

I think that this is a very good definition, and will help many participants. My difficulty is that we don't have Town Councils in Oz, just Local Government Areas. In my home state, the LGAs range in size from 2 sq miles to 20,000 sq miles and each LGA is responsible for all cities, towns, villages and localities within it's boundaries.



This is a screen-shot of the sign at the entrance to the West Wyalong Public School. The school's website shows the street address as Park St, West Wyalong. Australia Post Office recognizes this location with the PostCode (zip-code) of 2671. The Australian Census recognize this location by recording that 2,698 people lived in West Wyalong in 2021. Google Maps shows that the school in located in an area known as West Wyalong, and this area is distinct and separate area from it's sister-town of Wyalong, 3 miles to the east.

In the absence of a Town Council, can I use some combination of name on sign + street address + post code + census data to pre-qualify a bonus location ??